Hanoi, Vietnam’s capital city, has been busy preparing for the lunar new year, known as Tết, this month. Signs of the occasion are all over the city—women dolled up in traditional gowns, posing for social media photoshoots, and motorbike drivers balancing potted fruit and flower trees on their backseat. I feel lucky to be here for the lead up to the celebration, something I missed out on the first time I visited the country last year.
While living in Vietnam these past few months, I wanted to delve deeper into its culture and history, and one aspect in particular. Last time around, I visited the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City. One exhibit in particular left a powerful impression: the stories and photographs of victims of Agent Orange, a herbicide used by the United States during the Vietnam War to kill off the dense jungle that was concealing North Vietnamese soldiers.
In Vietnam, the herbicide is referred to as “dioxin”, the abbreviated name of the chemical contaminant responsible for the diseases and disabilities of millions of ex-soldiers and their children, grandchildren, and even great-grandchildren. I wanted to have conversations with victims and find out how they’ve been affected.
Lynn, a tour guide and translator in Hanoi, helped me on this quest. Together, we visited Phú Diễn, a predominantly ex-military community on the outskirts of Hanoi, to speak with a retired high-ranking colonel who fought for the North Vietnamese army during the war, which ended in 1975, 50 years ago in 2025. Nguyễn Ánh Thép is now 68 years old and has been the president of the Phú Diễn branch of the Association for Victims of Agent Orange since 2012.
Our conversation, translated by Lynn, involves three people, two microphones, and two languages. Because of this, listening might be a little chaotic at times, and some nuances might be lost in translation.
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This interview transcript has been edited for length, clarity, and readability. To listen to the full interview, check out Rogue Chemist on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
Jenna: Where did you grow up, and which part of Vietnam is your family from?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He says that he grew up in province like 60 kilometers from Hanoi.
Lynn (quoting Thép): He joined the military in 1972, when he finished high school. At that time, grade 10 was when you finished high school. So, he was 17. He joined the military voluntary, and he worked in the military for 42 years until he retired.
Jenna: The war ended in 1975?
Lynn (quoting Thép): Yes, and in 1972, that was a big time of the war happening in the south of Vietnam. It was very intense because we had the last battle with the Americans in South Vietnam.
Jenna: You fought in the south?
Lynn (quoting Thép): Yes. the battle actually happened in Huế, an area where the Americans sprayed dioxin. That's how he got influenced by it [dioxin].
Jenna: The coastal city of Hue, I know where that is. What are your memories of the war? Do you have any vivid memories? Can he describe what it was like and maybe when he was in Huế?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He says that during the war, our military was divided into two different departments: the first one was the soldiers fighting directly against the Americans, and the backup supporters. He was in charge of the backup supporters of the troops directly in the battle. He says that he doesn’t have a direct memory about the battle, but he remembers how difficult it was for both fighting and the people who had to take care of all the soldiers and prepare everything for them to join the battle. At that time, he can remember the difference between the Vietnamese military and American military. We lacked everything in terms of supporters, weapons, food, and equipment, and meanwhile the Americans were very rich, they had full support and modern weapons. He also says one more thing really special about Vietnamese military. We were very brave. We were very persistent, even when we saw the difference [in military power], but we were not giving up and still really determined to fight.
Jenna: Were you aware that dioxin was being sprayed in Huế?
Lynn (quoting Thép): At that time, when Americans sprayed dioxin in the Huế area, he realized that it is a kind of chemical burning the grass, the living animals. They tried to destroy all the greenery so that there was nowhere for the military to hide because the uniform was military green. But he had no idea how it would influence himself, only that it can influence the trees and environment, that’s it.
Jenna: When did you suspect that you were personally affected by dioxin? How many years after the war did you experience chronic illness? How did it affect you?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He says that 16 years ago, he realized that he's a victim of dioxin because when he went for a health check at the doctor, he was told he had type-2 diabetes, gout, liver infection, and high levels of lipids in his blood. And he says that on the [scale of] dioxin level of influence, he scored 35%. This means how much it influenced his health in total. Every month, he has to go to the military hospital to take medicine to prevent his diseases from getting worse.
Jenna: The doctor you saw, did they associate all of your illnesses with dioxin exposure?
Lynn (quoting Thép): Yes, but not one doctor. A community of doctors. We have support from government for this. It's very carefully checked by this group of doctors.
Jenna: How many people in your family do you suspect have been affected by dioxin throughout the generations?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He says that, luckily, none of his family members were influenced by dioxin, but later he will take us to other families [in the neighborhood], so you can see the effect on the next generation. In some families, children are deaf or cannot speak, and some kids have Down’s syndrome. Some soldiers were a lot older when they joined the war and were already having kids before the war, so luckily their kids were not influenced. Different families, different situations.
Jenna: You mentioned that he's president of the Association for Victims of Agent Orange in this neighborhood. What does his role as president entail? What does he do for the victims?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He makes a list of the victims of dioxin because all of them have health issues and struggle a lot during their daily lives. So, he makes a list to make sure everyone receives care and are protected. Currently, he has a list of 30 families. They share the same issues, so they have sympathy towards each other so they can support each other, but not only mental support. They also have support from the community. People volunteer their time, their finances, to help the families. During the year, on certain occasions, for example, Tết, Independence Day, or Reunification Day, we have some little gifts to support them mentally and financially.
Jenna: How does the government support victims of dioxin?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He said, from the beginning, you need doctors to verify you are a victim of dioxin. So based on the percentage, you're going to receive an allowance according to it. For example, he [Thep] is 35% affected, so he going to have 2.1 million VND every month (around 80 USD). He also receives support because he worked for the military and retired, so every month he gets 1 million VND from them (around 40 USD) for medication. Maybe others don't work for the government, so they don't have a pension, so they have to pay for their medical expenses, but maybe the money they get based on the percentage they have been influenced by dioxin helps. During the main military celebration days, they're going to receive some gifts also.
Jenna: Does the money the government give you cover all your medical costs?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He says that compared to all the medical bills he has, it's not really enough, so he has to spend extra besides the amount he receives.
Jenna: Do you know what percentage [of dioxin influence on your health] you need to have to qualify for government benefits?
Lynn (quoting Thép): It must be above 20%.
Jenna: And the amount of support you get is based on the percentage? So, if somebody has 50%, they would be paid more by the government?
Lynn (quoting Thép): Yes.
Jenna: What changes would you like to see in terms of support in the future? It sounds like maybe you don't receive enough support.
Lynn (quoting Thép): He says that of course he hopes that the government allowance can be enough to cover all medical bills, and he also hopes that community groups [like the one he is in charge of] receives some funding from the government so they can fund more meaningful activities to support victims because currently they are funding themselves.
Jenna: I'm curious if you know anyone who might be afraid to have kids for fear that their children will be born with disabilities.
Lynn (quoting Thép): As for direct victims [of dioxin exposure] like himself, many of them already got married and had kids [before they realized they were affected], so they weren’t concerned about having kids or not [because they didn’t realize the potential effects]. But now some of their children, the next generation, they have some kind of disease, like epilepsy. He also encouraged them to apply to be victims of dioxin exposure, but he is very concerned about it because if they apply for the recognition of being a dioxin victim, maybe it's very difficult for them to get married in the future because people the people who want to get married to them are going to very concerned about the influence [of dioxin] on their kids. So, it’s even harder for them to start a family.
Jenna: Some people keep it secret for this reason, because they're afraid it will affect their chances of finding a partner and having kids. Interesting.
Jenna: Finally, a more light-hearted question. What are you doing for Tết?
Lynn (quoting Thép): He says that for his community [in Phú Diễn], he wrote a list to send to the government to help buy gifts for victims’ families. But not everyone on the list got approved because some families are already financially stable themselves, so the government won’t fund gifts for them, but they're going to consider the families who are really struggling. In terms of his own family, he will just do the normal celebration, our traditional and cultural preparation for Tết.
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After our conversation, Thep took me around his neighborhood to meet with a few locals living with different disabilities caused by dioxin. By chatting with them through Lynn, it was clear to me how much they wanted their stories to be heard by the international community, which I’m working on in an article I hope to publish.
I’m so grateful to have been warmly welcomed into the homes of Mr. Thep and his neighbors during my visit. Talking with people with diverse backgrounds and stories continues to be the focus of my travels and this podcast, even if there’s language barriers, and I’ll keep sharing these conversations in 2025.
Thanks for listening, and Happy Lunar New Year!
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